Suzuki T and GT Bulletin Board Archives
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Replacing crank seals

Have ordered crank seals for the 500.  I have split the cases & tada!  How does the crank seperate?  My diagram shows the oil seals are inside the bearing cases.  I have no problem replacing the outer "o" rings but I can't see how the crank seperates.  I have removed the circlip behind the main drive sprocket but that seems to do no good at all.  I thought I might beg some help from ya's rather than force it & stuff it up.

 

Re: Replacing crank seals, If you plan on keeping the bearings on the shaft I would suggest this.  I am assuming you will not need the old seals.  Screw in two course thread wood screws 180 degrees apart in the face of the seal. You can then use a pair of vise grips to pull the seal out.  When I replaced my seals I removed the bearings first.  This allowed me to get behind the seal and pry it out.

 

Having a really good time with my new swing arm

I have been trying to fit my new x6??? swing arm on my T500 and the bushings will not interchange.  The original 500 inner bushings are 1mm smaller than the inside of the x6 swing arm I知 trying to find needle bearings that will work.  But I知 having little success.  I believe that i've found something that isn't made.  If I don't find any bearings I知 going to visit my local machine shop and see if they can machine a set of bushings for me.  Most of the shops only do car engines and something this small they laugh in your face.

 

Re: Having a really good time with my new swing arm - not sure if you're in the states but you might give Berry Bearing a call.  I知 pretty sure they're all over the NE US.  Found a phone number on google as "1-800-BEARING".  Not sure if they can help or not but they were able to help me with some very odd bearings for a packaging machine from 1925 when I was doing some engineering/consulting work for Nabisco Bakeries.  Unfortunately it's been quite some time so I don't have any other contact info for you.

 

Needle bearing kit for GT models will it fit a T500?  One of the Water Buffalo clubs on the web has a list of parts available from a German source.  This list includes a needle bearing upgrade kit for the swing arm bushings.  I don't know if they also sell a kit for the T500 or if these parts interchange between the different models.  I bought that kit and tapered roller bearings from the guy in Germany.  I was am very happy with both purchases.

 

Need parts for GT550L fuel tap & kick starter rubber

Hi I am rebuilding the fuel tap on my bike but I can not get any parts.  I need the gaskets and filters.  If you know a place (I have tried about 6 places here in Toronto ON) or you have some for sale or know what else will fit please let me know.  Also looking for GT550 kick starter rubber, I知 looking for the rubber boot that goes over the end of a kick start lever on a GT550.  Does anyone have one to sell or know another model of bike that has one that will work?  The local suzuki shop says I知 out of luck.

 

Paul Miller (877) 244-7755 should be able to help you.  Tell him you were referred from Eric's (Zooke) Message Board

 

Cranks

Has anyone read any info in books or mags on rebuilding pressed cranks?  I learned to do my RD cranks 25-years ago from a fellow who's no longer around.  I really want to attack my buff crank but would like something to refresh my brain so I don't mess up.  I've conjured up some press tooling ideas and am about to start making same.  Searching many libraries and the web has not been fruitful.

 

Re: cranks - I in the process of rebuilding my T500 crank.  I used a 100 ton press to disassemble the crank.  I have made up a special fixture for aligning the crank pins when pressing back together.  I use the balance holes and jig them with pull style dowel pins.  As of now I have the crank press back together without the bearings or rods.  I am in the process of calculating bob weights for this crank.  These bob weights will allow me to balance the crank on a dynamic balancing machine designed for plain style rotors. It's been quite a pain getting this far but I think it will be all down hill from here.

 

Re: cranks - My main holdup was the tin pieces (baffles slingers?) between the mains and flywheels.  Is this why the mains have the notch cut into the inner side of the outer race?  I am thinking of cutting a corresponding stepped hole in two pieces of heavy angle to fit this groove and allow pressing.  Without such special bits it looked as though I would damage those tin bits with conventional pullers.  To further this information search maybe someone knows a person who is attending or has been through the motorcycle mechanics institute.  Regarding your flywheel alligning-how close can you get with the pins and do you do the finish work with the holy lead hammer?  Also have you found the stock cranks very far off in balance or are you lightening them so rebalancing is a necessity?

 

Porting specs T500 racebike

Who would be gracious enough to help me with some porting specs for a T500 racebike?  I知 not looking to go whole hog just yet but I'd like to get some more out of it than stock.  I'll probably be running the Jemco chambers.  Anybody want to throw me a bone or two here?  Thanks

 

Re: Porting specs - This is by no means the definitive answer but... Muzza has porting specs listed in some detail on his web site.  He's just modest or he would have told you by now!  That info is under Building a T500 racer part 4 or something.  I have 2 pages of a reprinted tech sheet on the Daytona T500 on my dinky little web page.  They are listed in the pictures album.  The print is small; I can read it but I already kind of know what it says.  If you download it and then blow it up it's got some useful info in there.  I tried to e-mail it before but the file was too big.  I know there are better sources out there but I figured I'd try to help.  Plus I don't have a T500 so I don't have to worry about yours being faster than mine :)  All that typing and no web address!  http://communities.msn.com/tntvintageracing

 

Re: Muzza's "old reliable" may be the way to go, The specs are available on Murray's site.  I am having my T500 racer ported to those specs (in fact dropping off the cylinders tomorrow!)  However Eric (aka Zooke) has suggested that the width of the ports are a little too much so I'll have to go with a third opinion - that of the tuner doing the work.  I am also having the heads milled 1mm (instead of the full race 1.5mm commonly used.)  I'll switch carbs to 34 or 36mm and I have custom race pipes tuned for 8000rpm.  Stock oil pump configuration being used.  While I am having the porting done I am also going to have the intakes matched to the carb mounts (I have both long and short ones for use at different tracks.)

 

Re: Muzza's "old reliable" may be the way to go, there's many ways to skin a cat yep the ports are wide by some standards but it goes like stink and never gives any trouble.  The main thing is to get the pipes to match the porting...  muzza

 

H2RICK any advice?

Could you ask your buddies with the GT750's if they know of anyway to separate the barrels from the block this one seems to want to stay where it is!!  Thank you.

 

Re: H2RICK any advice? - writes, I had the same problem but one of the guys from Australia said to use a putty knife and then a butter knife to slowly wedge the block and cylinder apart.  I used lots of WD 40 as well and low and behold the barrels came free after working on it for about an hour.  I had no damage on the mating surfaces.

 

Re: H2RICK any advice? - I think Atlantic Pirate was talking about me.  That was the technique I used to free my cylinders on two engines.  But I didn't use a butter knife it was an old steak knife. It had a wedge shape to the blade. I used a hammer to gently tap the sharp part of the blade between the engine surfaces. Working around the base of the cylinder alternating with the stiff putty knife to get a foot hold.  And I used a lot of penetrating oil and patience. It is low tech but it's low cost also!  On a geographical note I am located in Phoenix Arizona not Australia although sometimes it seems like the outback around here (except for the lack of kangaroos) Darrell

 

Try the oven trick - have you tried the oven trick?  First send the woman of the house out to get a massage / hairdo / makeover / anything that will stop her finding out what you're doing.  Warm your oven to about 80 - 90 centigrade.  Put in barrel and upper crank half (on a grill shelf ideally).  Cook for 30 minutes.  Remove. Then use old thick gloves and rubber mallett / penetrating oil / knife.  Tip -- leave oven open to dispel oily odours.

 

I've got electrical issues

Re. my 73 T500.  Well I charged the battery and connected it again. Put in a new fuse.  Nothing.  No lights no indication whatsoever that I didn't just stick the battery leads into a loaf of bread.  I know the battery has 12V juice I tested it with my multimeter.  There is also conductivity (less than 40 ohms) across the fuse. All has been good up to this point just turning a wrench and installing new parts. Now I guess I suppose I have an exhaustve electrical diagnostic ahead of me.  Bleah.  If anyone has any suggestions as to what could cause such a system-wide lights out I would really appreciate the advice.  Situation: there are no rear turn signals - the wires are hanging free.  The instrument cluster was replaced (by me) taking great care and following diagrams.  The original color-coding of the wires up still looks stock (as far as I have gone).  The bike has never run in my ownership.  I have a multimeter and can check volts resistance conductivity capacitance resistance.  The "parking lights" brown lead in the headlight housing is not connected to anything - as I understand this is for later T500s than mine.  I know this is a very hairy problem but if anyone has suggestions I am all ears. Thanks I think besides this she is mechanically sound.

 

Re: I've got electrical issues - This happened to me while put together a bike and I feel for ya IT SUCKS. I double checked every single connection and EUREKA. goodluck

 

Re: I've got electrical issues - writes, I've had the same problem it was just much worse when it happens at the race track.  The orange wire is your best friend and most likely your worst enemy right now.  If you have to go through the system start with the orange.  This should be the hot wire running from the ignition through the headlight bucket and onward.  You can have many of the other wires disconnected and still have power through the bike.  I am not an expert on this I have just suffered through the problem before.  If I am wrong about this someone please correct me.

 

Re: I've got electrical issues - I hate to hear this kind of problem.  I am about to finish restoring my 75 T500 very soon which hasn' been run in 7 years.  However look for the simple things first.  Did you turn the key on first?  Look for a short or conductivity from the ignition switch?  crossed wires ect.?  Hope you find the problem. I知 going to have a psychotic fit if my electrical system has problems after all the work i've put into the rest of it since last summer.

 

Re: i've got electrical issues - Yeah I know what you mean psychotic fit. I was hoping to get a break and the electrics all be fine - but no such luck. I'd rather rebuild a gearbox than try to diagnose an electrical problem.  Oh well no sense in my whining about it.  Thanks guys and another question...  My first suspect is a brown colored lead that comes off of the wiring harness and goes into the headlight bucket. On my bike this is not connected to anything.  According to wiring diagrams this brown wire is supposed to connect in the headlight bucket to a bulb that is labelled "parking lights". Does anyone know where this bulb is supposed to live?  My Clymer and Chilton manuals both show it as being inside the headlight but another wiring diagram I got off a link from muzzas site shows the "parking light" bulb as being perhaps inside the speedometer.  This "parking lights" circuit is my first suspect because here my bike seems to differ from wiring diagrams in that I can稚 find where this brown lead should connect.  The worst thing about wiring on an old bike like this is if some dumbass monkeyed with it at some point trying to rig it to work rather than fixing it.

 

Thanks guys and another question

That "parking light" wire/bulb is for the European-spec bike.  They use a small bulb (about 7-10 watts) plugged into the lower portion of the actual headlight.  The headlight itself is specific to those European countries where this type of light is required.  This bulb is used in big cities (Paris Berlin etc) instead of low beam - kinda like the daytime running lights now on most vehicles.

 

Re: problem. As one poster said do the easy stuff first.  Is there voltage on the battery side of the fuse??  Key side of fuse??  At the key terminal itself??  Turn key on... is there voltage on the output side of key?? etc etc etc.  When using the multimeter for this test mase sure you have a REALLY good ground for the black lead.    It's amazing how hard it is to get a good ground.  Did you check battery voltage from bat pos post to frame not just across the bat posts??  Many times the bat negative cable is screwed or has become corroded on the frame mounting end.  About 95% of electrical problems can be traced (sorry I couldn't resist) to BAD (non existent or partial) GROUNDS.  Good luck and keep us posted.

 

Re: Thanks guys and another question - Thanks for the advice.  I'll do as you suggest and start simple.  If I have any more questions trust me you'll hear me whining about it.  Oh yeah H2RICK my clutch is working now thanks again for the advice on that.

 

Follow H2RICK's advice and "walk thru" the circuit - With the meter set for ohms check continuity between the battery neg. terminal and the frame first.  This reading should be no more than 2 ohms.  If you get a good ground remove the leads and switch to volts D.C.  With the black lead on a good frame ground start with the red lead on the pos. battery terminal and check point by point through the circuit to see where you are losing 12 volts.  The worst thing you can do is to skip around testing here and there. Follow the circuit through and you will find the problem.  In your post you said you had "less than 40 ohms resistance" across your main fuse.  A fuse is either near 0 ohms (no more than 2) or it is open (blown).  This is true reguardless of the current rating.  Also you can't check resistance with voltage applied to the circuit. If you have the battery hooked up and the switch on you'll get weird resistance readings.  You can check for a dead short in the system by disconnecting both battery leads and checking continuity between the two. If the resistance between the two is close to 0 ohms you have a dead short which will blow your main fuse.  Just step through these checks and let us know what you find.

 

Just a thought - for ya on my old beast the parking circuit is on the ignition switch & only becomes live when the ignition is turn past the "on" setting.  May be something to think about

 

Re: just a thought - Ok.  Thanks for spelling it out for me - I am inexperienced at electrical troubleshooting so I need it like that.  I am taking your advice and walking through the circuits.  Actually it is more like stumbling or crawling while groping around in the dark.  All I can tell you at this point is there is 12.65 Volts across the terminals and to ground all the way up to the "rectifier" (I think) where things get wierder.  At least I guess this open black thing with a horizontal post and two exposed wire bridges up and down either side is the "rectifier".  I think this little metal barrel attached to it is the turn signal "blinker". I am sure you guys will be hearing from me again

 

Do you have a wiring diagram?, Yep a nice color one from Per Norsteds website.

 

T and GT parts new and used

Hello T and GT fans Still looking for parts to finish or improve your bike?  For all models I have new and used parts.  Mail me and visit my website, Marcel Vlaandere www.suzukitandgtparts.com, Suzuki T and GT bikes and parts, [email protected]

 

GT750 cylinder removal

A buddy just gave me a 73 GT750 with a seized motor (from sitting) and I started to strip the motor down for something to do and discovered that the cylinders won't break free from the engine case. I got the motor to turn over so I split the cases to see how the crank was and suprisingly there is no rust on it and all but one of the main bearing spins smoothly the crank is out from the casing about 1/2 inch so I know that the rods aren't holding the cylinders down.  If I could get the cylinders off then I might be able to save this motor.  Any ideas?

 

Re: GT750 cylinder removal - You could try heating up some cheap 2-stroke oil on the stove until it is almost boiling hot and then pouring this oil into the cylinders. Somebody suggested this for me and it worked wonders for freeing things up.

 

T500 electrical question

I have a T500 that has not run in over 5 years.  I am working towards getting her going again.  I've got a simple question:  I connected a new charged battery into the bike and turned the key on then turned the left handlebar on-off switch to "ON".  Should the headlight blinkers etc. light up and work?  Or does the engine have to be running for the lights to work?  Thanks.

 

Re: T500 Electrical question - I would say that they should be on and working check your main fuse (with ohm meter) and replace if needed.If it blows again then you have a short some place.  Also check for corrosion on the fuse holder that will not allow for a good connection.  Does it run?  that will cancel the main fuse idea.

 

Re: T500 electrical question - Mine hadn't run for 22yrs & when a live battery was connected all lights etc. worked without the engine running.  Unles they changed anything after '72 I guess they should all work.

 

Boyer Branson or Neutronic (in England)

Pro-Flow sells a Boyer Branson kit for the GTs for $149.00.  I don't know anything about it to make a recomendation.  I bought a Neutronic setup from England for $170.00.  I received the unit about 10 days after my order.  It was very easy to install and set the timing.  I知 just now getting my bike running so I don't really know how it will affect performance.  I would recommend the Neutronic ignition based on my limited experience.

 

I am with Todd on the Neutronics, I put one on my 1977 GT550 and it has worked great.

 

Re: I am with Todd on the Neutronics - I have the Boyer on my T500 race bike and have had no problems.  The brain box is smaller than the neutronics so it fits between the frame rails under the gas tank.  The neutronics is an optical system while the Boyer has a magnetic trigger.  Not sure which one is better and how dirty the neutronics eye can be and still function well.  I doubt that would be a problem though.  Since I have a Boyer I thought I would offer my feedback.  Mine works great with no complaints but I do plan on buying a neutronics for my other T500 because of the difference in price (around $40-$50).

 

Oh damn!  A Suzicle!

Today I was sitting down over supper feeling that glow of contentment that can only come from getting a new vintage racer.  I had gone to Toronto that morning an hour's drive away in a friends pickup to get a mildly ported GT750 vintage racer.  Gorgeous new tires TZ replica seat it is truly a thing of beauty.  We had then gone to another place a further half hour from home where my friend scored another couple of used engines for his CB550F and then through the blustery snow squalls home again.  As supper progressed I suddenly had a realization the guy that I had bought the GT750 from had a heated garage - and water cooled race bikes don't use anti-freeze.  My heart sank a queasy feeling came over me.  Rushing home to the garage I found an icicle had formed from the radiator.  I popped the rad cap and sure enough the fluid level was solid ice.  I put a small space heater next to the bike and popped off the waterpump cover and the lower rad hose fitting on the engine.  Water came from both and there was some ice "flakes" in the rad hose.  Now the grim question has anyone frozen their bike and if so what pops first (after the obvious rad split).  Particulars are bike at 70F at 10:45am highway ride for about a half hour 20F then sit for 1/2 an hour and a 1 and a half hour ride back home via the highway.  Then to the garage which while its not heated is attached to the house and typically is 10F warmer than the outdoors.  Be gentle boys I知 feeling awful about my apparent possible suzicide.  Will a teardown be necessary?

 

Re: Oh damn! A Suzicle! - Wouldn't think so the pressure wouldn't have been that bad and the thing didn't freeze solid all through the motor by the sounds of it... but hey what would I know... there is no chance of freezing a motor in Western Australia the struggle is to keep it cool!!!! ,muzza

 

Re: Oh damn! A Suzicle! - I never saw such a thing happen to a Buffalo but have seen it happen to medium/large water cooled compressors.  I go out on a limb here but you're probably right about the rad.  The thinnest cast metal sections go next so after the rad my next guess is the water pump cover but you say that's OK.  The next thing would be the thermostat housing or the seams in the filler neck thingy.  The next things would be the head gasket or the water pump impeller/shaft seals.  Whatever you do DO NOT PUT ANTIFREEZE BACK IN THE ENGINE NOW. Ethylene glycol molecules are SMALLER than water molecules and will sneak through leak paths where water can't.  If you have a crack anywhere in the combustion chambers OR into the gearbox the antifreeze will then seep in and sit there waiting to wreck all your bearings (in either the crank or the tranny depending on where the leak is).  Dump the tranny oil and watch for liquid water or milky lube.  For sure I'd pull the head and take a very good look inside the barrels for traces of water.  If you want to be really sure have the block and head magnafluxed.  As to tranny case cracks you know the answer to that...the cases come apart. Sorry to hear this story.

 

Re: Oh damn! A Suzicle! - Thanks for the tips Rick.  I went out last night at about 1 am (couldn't sleep go figure) and the entire cooling system seemed to have drained.  There were no signs of external leaks (other than the rad).  I tilted the bike over from side to side and another half litre ran out.  I felt it was completely drained so I shut off the heater last thing I needed was to loose all the bikes in a fire.  I got to thinking when I first removed the lower fitting on the engine I felt insided and there were large (1/2") flakes of ice.  If the thing had frozen solid it would not melt in down to large flakes.  I think the engine is alright though I will pull cylinders and head and drain the oil.  I count myself lucky it was only the rad.  In the end it is a valuable lesson and Muzza what are your immigration laws like =:o)

 

Re: Oh damn! A Suzicle! - Sorry mate no Canucks or Quick frozen imports allowed.  We have strict rules but if you go to Iraq and then hop on a boat and land in our remote northern wastes we'll let you in.  You'll have to brush up on arabic though!  As I said I reckon from your description that you got to it before any internal damage was likely to occur.  The motor can take a lot of presure normally.  Mind you I am talking out of my posterior here because this is not a likely scenario in good ol' sunny Oz.

 

T500 chain size etc

It was a beautiful day in North Carolina today - mid 70's and no clouds.  Everywhere I looked I saw people out riding motorbikes.  It didn't bother me much (mostly punks on plastic superbikes) until this guy pulled up to my neighborhood coffeeshop on a mint gloss black old Norton commando.  Made me realize I've got to complete my T500 and get her on the road.  To that end I've got a few questions and I bet some of you chaps have answers: (1) Is the correct chain size 530 x 110?  (2) How comfortable are clubman handlebars on a stock Titan (Zooke Todd others...?)  I like the way they look and had some on a honda 400 in my youth.  (3) Does anybody have any rear turn signals for sale?  If not has anyone found any aftermarket ones (universal or ones offered in dennis kirk for other bikes) that fit the Titan?  Thanks guys, Matt, [email protected]

 

Re: T500 chain size etc - The stock T500 chain is 530 X 110.  The GT500 was 530 X 112  I put lower "superbike" bars on my street T500 and it is a lot more comfortable than the higher original bars.  The problem with clubmans on the street is the way your body gets bent due to the stock footpeg location (especially if you are 6'3" like me - can you ride with your knees on your chest?)  However I bought some Crooks Suzuki period rearsets (who says you can't get a bargain on ebay - I paid $36 U.S. for a genuine set from the '70's and they are almost perfect complete with all hardware) and I plan on trying them on my street bike along with some clubman bars. I am also putting a GT750 4ls drum on the front.  These rearsets should make the clubman bars far more comfortable.  One thing to keep in mind.  If you go with lower bars especially clubmans the cables will be too long and you will have big loops getting in the way of everything.  My superbike bars are bad enough clubmans would be a nightmare. When I change to the 4ls drum I will make some shortened brake cables and may have to do something about the clutch and throttle cables, Stephen [email protected]

 

Re: Throttle Cable Routing 9-Feb-2001 - If it got chewed up under the tank your missing a rubber grommet that goes in the hole in the frame (I think). mines missing too.  Justin , [email protected]

 

Re: Throttle Cable Routing - Hi Bill.  My throttle cable goes like this: From the right twist grip under the intruments (but over the headlight side mount) around the front of the frame steering tube then straight back (on the left side now) to the underside of the middle frame bar.  There the cable goes into the metal 3-way cable canister which is clamped to the underside of the middle frame tube.  The 3 cables going out of the connecter go straight to their respective components.  Hope this helps.  Matt

 

Fork seals

9-Feb-2001 - I am trying to get a set of fork seals for a GT750.  I heard that RM fork sets are the same.  Can anyone confirm this.  If not can I use another seal off another model and what is that model.  Atlantic Pirate

 

Re: Fork seals - GN400 GS450 GS550 GS650 GR650 GS750 before 83.  Zooke

 

Hey!  The brake calipers are on the wrong side of the forks!

I thought it was a bad idea to reverse the fork sliders and mount the brakes on the back side.  Did it cause any problems for you?  Todd T

 

Re: Hey! The brake calipers are on the wrong side of the forks! - I noticed that too.  I know most of the modern bikes have the calipers behind the sliders so it looks modern but I wonder how it works in reality.  Does it complicate bleeding?  Andy B

 

Re: Hey! Caliper relocation - Brakes were initailly put in front because they thought they would cool better.  Under hard barking they calipers in front would cause "Polar Moment" changing the steering goemetry.  This was in reality only noticed by those world class racers who rode on the edge.  Putting them in the rear looks more modern and like you know what you are doing.  They bleed properly either way except for the H1 and H2 Kaw that have the bleeder screw pointed towards the bottom when put in the back.  Also it is easier to run the braided steel brack lines with them at the rear.  Zooke

 

Re: Hey! Caliper relocation - I relocated the calipers on my Dunstall 750 like this about 20 years ago - the object was to protect the calipers (slightly) from water.  Never had a problem yet - and yes bleeding is more difficult - you generally have to unbolt the caliper move it round on the disc bleed then move it back.  Ian

 

Re: Hey!  The brake calipers are on the wrong side of the forks! - I had GT750 forks/brakes on the front of my GT500.  At first I mounted the caliper behind the fork.  The idea being that mass closer to the turning axis requires less leverage to turn.  The bugger sqealed like crazy.  I made sure the pads were seated and then added that blue "stop-squeal" compound to the back of them.  They still sqealed.  They performed just fine but what a noise...  I was emailing with Chris (can't remember your last name Australian nice GT250 netbikes!?!)  he had the same experience but when he switched the calipers around they were fine.  I switched mine around and no problems.  I was starting to develop a funny wear pattern on one side of one disk but I believe that was just a problem I had with one pad becoming glazed.

 

"Bloody overstrength Ozzie shearbolts!"

This means total war!  Some fiend of the southern hemisphere sobotaged one of our barn cleaners and the thing ate 64 manure flite paddles before it finally jumped its track and uncoupled.  The bolts we found had markings like they were for Holden motor mounts or something.  After I recuperate from the busted arse I suffered today I知 going to contact my Cossack cousins in the Ukraine to find out how they'd deal with such a barbaric act.  Now I know why you've been so quiet Muzza you've been concocting dirty tricks.  Wait'll I slip some eelpout juice into your injector tank or something.  Watch yer back Guzzi John JP

 

Re: "Bloody overstrength Ozzie shearbolts!" - Go to your search engine enter COW PIE and hit search.  Mark

 

Re: "Bloody overstrength Ozzie shearbolts!" - Funny to us they were low tensile bolts... you guys must be gutless you have to be tough to survive the ozzie bush mate!! (one jet-lagged Muzza just off the plane from Melbourne).  Muzza

 

"Melborne My Foot!" - Jet lag eh?  A DeHavilland Gypsy Moth with strange markins painted on it was seen taking off in the night a few days back from a field near the sabotaged barn.  The markings were said to resemble a kangaroo so I put two and two together and got one Muzza.  An eye witness who was found lurking near the sheep barn identified Muzza from the 'Fanatic's' website picture.  There couldn't be two of them could there?  Only the Shadow knows!  Guzzi John JP

 

Re: "Melborne My Foot!" - I deny your allegation I was nowhere near there; and it wasn't a Gypsy Moth it was a Tiger Moth!  Check your beer fridge... it's empty sucker!  Muzza

 

Re: "Melborne My Foot! - My Foster's is still in the fridge.  Evidently if you don't get on Muzza's bad side he'll leave your beer alone or... he doesn't like Foster's!!! I hear he only goes for the JD stuff.  Zooke

 

"Dust Off The Sopwith!" - My camel took care of Von Richtofen so look out mothman! PS you didn't find my stash of Dr. Pepper. GJ JP

 

Voltage regulator from a T250

I have understood that the T250 voltage regulator could be used on the T500, am I wrong here or could I give it a try?  How does the T250 regulator look by the way and where is it positioned?  Can anyone please help with some kind of description of the device?  I have found an old T250 where the owner is ready to sell the regulator if I manage to describe it to him ower the phone.  Any help is appreciated!  Stefan in Finland

 

Re: Voltage regulator from a T250 - For some reason my master parts book does NOT show a regulator for a T250 specifically BUT does show the GT250 A & B.  The GT500 A & B also have a separate listing from the T500 (all earlier years).  The T250 regulator MAY be marked 32500-01310 or 32500-09010.  This is a different part number from the earlier Titans through the 'M' model which is 32500-15020.  I would think this over VERY carefully as the T250 regulator may NOT be able to handle the loads imposed by the Titan battery/charging coil setup and the bike's electrical demands. Good luck.  H2RICK

 

Re: Voltage regulator from a T250 - Thank's for the advice!  Stefan

 

Where does everyone get their number plates for Vintage racing?

I need black numbers with a yellow background for WERA Vintage Formula 500.  Todd T [email protected]

 

Re: Where does everyone get their number plates for Vintage racing? - This is an important topic and make sure you are prepared in advance of the race.  Do not believe the race officials if they say they have numbers at the track.  You don't want to find yourself at the grocery store at midnight the night before the race having to buy red construction paper and clear tape because the red tape that you hade to make the numbers with mysterioulsy disappeared.  Around me many motorcycle shops have black numbers.  If your local shop does not have them most sign shops can make you just about anything you want.  Are you using a fairing on the 550?  Todd [email protected]

 

Yes I do have a fairing for my GT550... but... how do you know what number WERA is going to give you before you show up for the race?  Lynne Brokton Breckton... whatever told me just to show up the morning of my first race with the certificate from my track school and $85.00 to join.  I was planning on ordering the numbers from a catalog but I was looking for a source for the number plates to go on each side of the bike.  How do they select numbers and where do I get the plates?  Todd T

 

Re: Yes I do have a fairing for my GT550...but... - I know AHRMA usually has black numbers at the track and it seems like WERA also had some at the Putnam race.  Just bring a role of electrical tape and make your own numbers if they don't have any.  Good thing you have the fairing an easy way to try to hide that extra cylinder (LOL)  As far as number plates go what sort of plates do you need.  Is your fairing big enough to have the number on it or do you need the flat square plates?  Todd, [email protected]

 

My fairing is big enough for numbers on the front but... - there is not enough surface area on the side for numbers. I was planning on mounting number plates just below the bottom of the tail section on each side.  I see the plates in pictures of race bikes all the time but I don't know where to get them.  Don't you have number plates on your race bike?  Todd T

 

Re: My fairing is big enough for numbers on the front but... - The plates I have on my bike are also from a local motorcycle shop.  I知 not sure if WERA specifies the size but the one I have are 10x12" and are white (which may be a problem but I have raced WERA with white plates and no questions asked).  I think www.chaparral-racing.com has them but I don't think they are listed online.  I may have two extra plates if you want to use the white ones or touch them up with some paint.  Zooke showed me a good way to mount them using the top shock bolt the seat bolt and a bit of steel strap. It even held up after my crash at Putnam probably saved my seat from tearing.  I can send a picture of the setup if you want that too.  Todd [email protected]

 

Thanks for the help Todd I think I'll check with the bike shops around me for plates.  The WERA rule book says that number plates for Formula 500 MAY be a yellow background with black numbers.  Does that mean it COULD be a white background with black numbers?  Beats me.  I think I will e-mail Bill Murar at WERA and see what he says.  Thanks again Todd for helping.  See you at Putnam May 12!  Todd T

 

Re: NUMBER PLATE COLORS - They can be yellow as they are supposed to be in WERA Vintage.  But since many bikes can bump up a class they may have a different color.  So WERA is flexible.  For Formula 500 in AHRMA you need and have to have a white plate no exceptions.  So go with a white plate as WERA V3 requires that and you are covered on all counts in AHRMA and WERA with a white plate.  I have a white with red numbers from AHRMA and WERA Vintage lets me use this too.  Zooke

 

Re: number plates - I have 3 yellow number plates but they have been drilled to fit a CZ 400 motocrosser. if your interested let me know.  Justin [email protected]

 

Thanks for clearing that up Zooke.  As long as the white background is Ok for Formula 500 in WERA then that is the way I'll go.  I would like to eventually paint a white background on the sides of my tail section and put numbers there but I was worried they might "ding" me for it since I知 new to both organizations.  I figured I should stick to the letter of the rules until I see how things like that really work. Thanks again to everyone for their input.  Todd T

 

Gasket #

Could someone give me the numbers for the cylinder gasket and o rings for a 1972 Suzuki GT750 and a 1976 suzuki GT750.  Atlantic Pirate

 

Re: Gasket # - According to my OFFICIAL SUZUKI PARTS CATALOG.  The part numbers are the same both years of gaskets and "O" rings. Part no. Description Qty. 11241-31000 Gasket cylinder (base) 09280-22001 Gasket (O ring).  However I have bought the O rings at an auto supply store and they worked great.  I took a sample down to the local store and matched it up perfectly.  And they were real inexpensive. No such luck with the cylinder base gasket though.  Regards Darrell

PS. The part number for the cylinder head gasket is (1972) 11141-31002 and (1976) 11141-31681 (just in case.)  Darrell

 

Need help really bad another swing arm question

Yesterday it was warm I pulled the titan out of hibernation into the barn lot to put my new x-6 swingarm on.  Every thing was going good till I put the piviot bolt back in.  It was a couple of inches too short and the diameter wasn't big enough.  So I started putting the wheel back on and the tire was to tall it hits the brace/fender bracket do I need to cut that out get a smaller tire or just throw the whole thing over the local bridge into the lake.  Any info will be appreciated.  I have a 4.00-18 on the rear should I go with a 110-80-18 or should I stay with a 110-90-18 writes,  Justin Howes

 

Re: Need help really bad another swing arm question - The inner bushes off the T500 should fit in the X-6 arm and then you should be able to use the T500 pivot bolt.  As for the wheel you need to cut the tube that goes across the frame that holds the fender off and move it forward and reattach another inner fender.  Zooke

 

Re: You will also need to move the upper shock mounts forward.

 

Re: You will also need to move the upper shock mounts forward - Thanks zooke thats been bugging me all day.  As far as tires I知 going as cheap as possible at this time since I知 not going to race it for a while I have a choice between Pirelli mt68e and Bridgestone bt45h which both are better than the dry rotted piece of cheng shin thats been on it for 20 years +/-.  Justin

 

Zooke do you still have some of the allen bolt kits left

Re: Zooke do you still have some of the allen bolt kits left. ,Yes I do.  Zooke

 

Re: Zooke do you still have some of the allen bolt kits left. - Hey Zooke, are these engine case allenbolts for the T500 and how much dude?

 

Re: Allen screw kits for T500 - $14.95 plus shipping. Zooke [email protected]

 

Re: Allen screw kits for T500 - Are they plated and where do I send the money

 

Re: Allen screw kits for T500. $14.95 plus shipping.  Me too!  I知 just starting to put my engine back together and I need to replace a lot of butchered screws.

 

T500 burning oil.  Crank seals?

Well things are not looking real good!!!!  I drained the oil after a 200 km run & to my amazement only 600 mls drained out!  I checked for leaks & there are none so I can only assume that its burning the oil.  Compression is good & no scoring was evident on the barrels when I had the heads off.  Am I right in assuming that the crank seals have had it?  If so can they be replaced without removing the heads as I only recently helicoiled them & would prefer not to disturb them if possible.  Thanks in anticipation.  Paul

 

Re: T500 burning oil.Crank seals? - That sounds like a lot of oil burning out. Burning 3 mL per km would probably blow a lot of smoke.  Did you note any coming out the pipes?  Just to be sure did you drain all (3) plugs to get the oil out?  If so I suppose that oil had to go somewhere (due to a pesky law of thermodynamics the 2nd I think?).  If your bike is burning that much oil it probably has some ageing seals somewhere.  The outer crankcase seals aren't that troublesome to replace.  There are also inner crank seals that can go bad and cause some tranny oil to get sucked into the crank area and burned off.  They require splitting the cases to replace I think the jugs might better come off for that bit.  What kind of oils are you using?

 

It smokes from the left pipe.  Hey Matt.  Well the old girl doesn't like to rev over 5000 either!  I am using Penrite HPR50 heavy-weight oil (non synthetic).  A bit of clutch drag when she's cold but with our temps at the moment it does'nt stay cold for long lol!!!  I have also made the oil mod for 1400cc.  I took all 3 plugs out when I drained the oil & measured exactly 1400cc to refill & it came to the right spot on the dipstick.  The engine stood (full of oil ) for over 20yrs.  Has anyone tried the addative that re-softens the rubber seals in one of these?  It may be a dry spot that was above the oil?  Would the outer seals cause oil burning?  I assume the inner seals would be the culprits!!!  If ya have any more ideas please give me some insight! Thanks

 

Ask H2RICK about oil additives and seal conditioners he's used them all... Apparently oil additives are not a good idea when used with a wet clutch.  Bad things happen.  H2 can tell you much more

 

Re: smokes from the left pipe - Yep seal swelling oil additives might not be the best idea.  Check the posts from a few days earlier.  Smoke from the left pipe might be due to inner seal failure.  From the right pipe might have to do more with outer seal failure.  Other factors can also influence the smoking though.  I suggest looking through previous posts because I know this issue has been discussed with T500 owners more competent than I.  I bet you wish you had checked/replaced those seals when you had the cases split for the oil capacity modification!  It seems that a long time sitting often sounds a death nell for Titan crank seals.  Maybe your seals will soften up with use get plugged up with sludge and do a better job on their own if given time.  That's probably not very encouraging but either way these bikes are pretty easy to work on.  Remember it could always be worse my T500 is just a big old paper weight at the moment!

 

How to differentiate GT550s

I've bought a GT550 4 weeks ago.  I知 not sure if it's a 1975 or 1976 model.  Could someone give me some explanations on how to recognize the main models?  The frame number is #61155 and the engine #64107 jmc [email protected]

 

JMC: What's the build month/year???  That will reveal everything.  H2RICK

 

Re: JMC: What's the build month/year? - Don't know the only official paper I have shows the frame number and engine number...  I'll check on the plate behind the fork for other informations.  ,jmc [email protected]

 

Re: JMC: What's the build month/year ? - You can have a look to the member picture area there's a pic of my GT550.  I don't know if it'll help.  jmc [email protected]

 

Clutch related

Hi guys I got a little question.  Scenario: I put my non-running (yet) T500 in gear (any gear) squeeze the clutch lever in all the way and try to spin the rear wheel.  What happens?  The rear wheel does not spin freely.  I can feel/hear the pistons going up and down (overbored. 5 OS new pistons rings etc.).  This doesnt seem right to me.  On other bikes pulling in the clutch always frees up the rear wheel.  I think I have the clutch cable adjusted right.  I dismantled the clutch earlier and put it back together everything looked factory new and was in spec.  Did I perhaps tighten down the pressure plate screws too much?  I followed orders and tightened them down "until firmly seated".  I figured this meant to tighten them down quite tightly and I wonder if I overdid it.  Or could it be something else?  She is almost ready to run now and looks great all polished and with a nicely painted tank.  Thanks!  Matt [email protected]

 

Re: clutch related - Did you go through the procedure for adjusting the release arm setting on the clutch?  This is the gizmo on the left side of the engine that operates the push rod(s).  It actually turns the "pulling" motion of the clutch cable into a "pushing" motion on the push rod(s) and thence the clutch itself.  Another thing is the gear oil in the tranny will cause the clutch plates to stick together giving you a "non-release" feeling in the drive train.  This is usually most evident first thing on a cool morning when you get the bike out to go for a ride.  Tranny in neutral start engine engine warmed up clutch in press shifter for low gear... bike lurches a bit and stalls with clutch lever still pulled in all the way.  The easy way to get rid of this problem on most bikes is before starting engine tranny in neutral pull in clutch lever kick kick starter through 3 or 4 times.  You will feel the clutch plates "unstick" as you kick the kick starter.  (This MAY not work on the Titan as I can't remember if it has the kick starter that works on the primary gear train or not.  Any help here from Zooke or Muzza???)  You can then start the bike and not worry about the dreaded "lurch-stall" thing when you select low gear before riding off.  This is a common situation with heavier viscosity gear oils in the tranny. It doesn't happen when everything is warmed up though cuz the oil has thinned out and the "sticky clutch plate" situation can't happen.  H2RICK

 

Re: clutch related - Hey H2RICK. That is exactly what is happening: a "non-release" feeling in the drive train due to sticky clutch plates.  You are right about the engine in nuetral-clutch in-push the kickstarter: when I do that I feel the clutch plates "unstick".  I adjusted the clutch gizmo (if you mean the screw under the rubber cap on the left cover) as per the manual but it is difficult to determine the correct amount of 'free play at the hand lever before the clutch engages' since I can't figure when the clutch is engaging because the plates are sticking.  Thanks for the advice - I guess the thing to do is get the bike running and see if the plates still stick with the engine running and warm.  Maybe a change in oil type and weight will also help remedy the problem.  Right now there is a mix of Penzoil 20W-50 and 15W-30 in there.  Zooke recommended Belray 80 wt.  so I'll give it a shot.  Matt

 

Re: clutch related - This story is kinda related.  I got one old honda [crashed] took apart motor and found out what hurt the boy bent distorted clutch push rod.  Awhile back I picked up a kawa KH400 that had been crashed - got it home got it fired tached it out in the back yard let the clutch out and dumped it before I went thru the fence.  Guess what beat clutch pushrod.  Luckily there were no witness's.  That's a change.  Mark Walls

 

Re: clutch related, Saturday 3-Feb-2001 -Hi Matt as H2RICK suggests it sounds like the clutch "gizmo" isnt adjusted correctly.  Loosen the screw off with a screwdriver slowly screw adjuster in until you feel it seat up against the pushrod then back off half a turn.  Now while keeping the screw in position with the driver tighten the nut up around the screw.This should result in a correctly adjusted clutch.  They usually drag a bit from cold especially with heavy oil in the box I live in England so I have to unstick the plates every time when starting from cold !!  Good Luck,trev

 

Re: clutch related, Saturday 3-Feb-2001 - Yeah I adjusted the clutch gizmo that contacts the pushrod - twice.  It's a pretty simple set of instructions to follow.  The clutch plates are still sticky but a little less so after following H2RICK's "clutch in nuetral-pull in clutch lever-work kickstart through a few times" method of freeing up sticky plates.  Now the rear wheel turns without engaging the drivetrain when in gear and clutch engaged but it is hard to turn it and I can feel that the clutch plates are the source of the friction.  Are you guys sure that one cannot overtighten the screws on the clutch pressure plate and cause this condition I am experiencing?  Maybe the clutch just needs to get warm and lubed up with the right weight oil and the problem will rectify itself.  Matt

 

Oops. Or could it be..., Saturday 3-Feb-2001 - the half-bottle of STP Stops-Leaks I poured into the crankcase 2 weeks ago?  I cleverly added this miracle liquid to rejuvinate the crank seals... an oily additive that "swells and lubricates polymeric gaskets to stop oil leaks".  This substance I realize now might also cause the rubberized cork clutch plates to swell... which could cause the sticky clutch I am experiencing.  One might think I should have learned my lesson after the last "Bars-Leaks" fiasco with my truck's radiator.  When oh when will I learn that there are no real $2.49 magic liquid repairs for engine leaks?, Matt

 

Re: Oops. Or could it be..., Sunday 4-Feb-2001 - Now you tell us !!...  I've not had anything to do with additives to gearbox oil but I have always been led to believe that you don't put anything in with a wet clutch except the oil it was designed to run in.  Maybe there is someone out there that knows the effect that it will have?  I would suggest draining the oil out refill (without additives!!) get the bike going warm the clutch up and see how it feels from there.  The pressure plate screws can only be tightened up so far, beyond that they shear!  I might be that the clutch plates have swollen due to the additives you have put in you would have to strip the clutch and measure them offhand I can't remember the standard thickness for the plates but I知 sure somebody can.  Cheers, Trev

 

OK, Sunday 4-Feb-2001 - Well hopefully not too much swelling occurred since the engine never ran with the additive.  I'll do as you suggest trev.  And I WILL NOT rely on any dumb liquid fix again!  Hmmm I wonder if a second coat of Kreem in my gas tank is in order...  Thanks for the info and advice guys.  I might get her running come spring I think all I need now is a battery and new sprockets and chain.  Matt

 

Oh Oh. This could be serious trouble... Sunday 4-Feb-2001 - Matt, I recommend stripping the clutch entirely and washing everything up in clean solvent.  The "cure-in-a-bottle" stuff has probably done exactly what you posted... swelled the cork on the plates.  At the very least it has changed the friction coefficient between the steel and the cork plates and this is probably why you are getting the clutch action you are.  Cleaning all the plates AND flushing that crap out of the tranny/clutch housing would be my recommendation at this point.  Use lots of clean solvent on EVERYTHING.  DO NOT/NOT run engine during this process.  Strip clutch to remove pressure plate clutch plates spacers basket bearings etc as in a normal clutch teardown.  Wash cover and reinstall cover ONLY.  Fill clutch cover/tranny with about 2 litres (2000 cc) of clean solvent.  Use kick starter and/or rear wheel (assuming chain is hooked up) to spin everything over gently.  Drain solvent through sump drain hole.  Let drain REAL well to get out as much as you can.  Shake bike gently from side to side to make sure the solvent is all out.  Remove clutch cover.  Shake bike again.  At this point you will probably have as much solvent out as you are going to get out.  The only joker in the deck here is that little oil "well" in the tranny portion of the main engine casting.  I am not familiar enough with the Titan to know if it drains along with the rest of the tranny.  I think it also depends on what year engine you have.  Check out Muzza's site.  He has a real good article and pics on this subject.  Either way ("well" drains properly or not) your next step is to reinstall the clutch cover and fill the tranny with the correct amount of the correct fluid.  Work tranny with kickstarter and rear wheel to get fluid thoroughly worked through everything.  Drain through sump hole and shake bike.  Remove clutch cover and shake bike.  At this point you are (hopefully) back where you started... ready to install the clutch.  If your email address is in one of your posts I will send you my long-winded article on tranny lubes.  This will probably get you pointed in the right direction and help you to make an informed decision on what to use.  Good luck with getting everything back to "square one".  H2RICK

 

BAD @$$ CYLINDERS HAVE ARRIVED.  H1s WILL COWER INFEAR!!!

Thursday 1-Feb-2001 - PUBLIC NOTICE: I have received my race ported cylinders... and they are good.  Actually all I知 sure of is that there are more holes in the cylinders and pistons and most of the holes are bigger than stock.  That might sound a little too technical for the lay person but we all know what I知 talking about here.  My previously way too wide exhaust system is tucked completely between the lower frame rails.  Since I had the alternator rotor removed from the crank I cut the left engine case cover down flush with the end of the shaft and cut and welded a piece of aluminum into the hole ground it smooth and bead blasted the entire cover.  Gained lots of lean angle on the left side.  On the right the points cover is the first thing to touch ground.  I will just have to hang WAY off the bike on right handers.  My friend has my aluminum seat/tailsection about 3/4 done.  Just wanted to give all the perspective racers out there a chance to throw in the towel before spending a bunch of money on entry fees.  Well there is that one little area where most racers will have an edge: the ability to race.  Actually I guess the verdicts still out on the capability of this rider AND his bike.  But I do have some really cool looking cylinders! ,Todd T

 

NOW WE WILL SEE WHAT A REALLY WELL PREPPED... Friday 2-Feb-2001  -multi-cylinder mid weight bike will do. T ry to keep the front wheel on the ground when you're accelerating out of the curves Todd.  LOL  Good luck with your racing season.  H2RICK

 

The spring's the thing and misc.  Ramblings

Thursday 1-Feb-2001 - I continue to sort out my "new" '72 T500J.  The oil pump lever return problem has been solved with a 75 cent spring from PepBoys.  With a properly adjusted oil pump and using Yamalube 2S semisynthetic oil I now have very little exhaust smoke; no worries about fried crankseals now.  I've replaced the almost 30-year old rubber intake manifolds and airboot with NOS parts and I've replaced one exhaust gasket that was leaking.  My clutch cable gave out; the cable appeared to have pulled out of the little metal end piece at the clutch lever and I had a little clutchless shifting to get back home.  It has been replaced with a spare cable for my GT750.  I want to replace the front brake cable that I think is too old and stretchy.  I am still looking for any tips out there for adjusting the front brake.  I know there has to be a little more braking in there if I know how to find it.  I've degreased the bottom of the engine and replaced the transmission oil with Zooke's recommended BelRay 80wt gearsaver lube.  I've put new Silkolene 10 wt. fork oil in the forks.  With a little fiddling with the points and timing it is now a first-kick starter.  I have a new sidecover coming from Australia and when it arrives it will be time for the repaint.  So far the Titan has been a hoot and I look forward to better riding weather soon.  Thanks to all for your help and advice in getting the T500.  Bill  [email protected]

 

Bill: glad to see there's a little "spring"... 2-Feb-2001 - in your step and just around the corner as well as on your oil pump cable.  LOLOLOL  Sorry but I couldn't resist... it was toooo easy.  Glad to hear all is going well.  H2RICK

 

Expansion Chamber Obfuscation

1-Feb-2001 - There have been many questions about expansion chambers for our old machines.  For what its worth possibly to add to the confusion but hopefully help someone I offer the following old-time information.  I got the chambers for my Titan back in 1974 from an outfit known as Ocelot Engineering in California. I've searched for a website but I guess they're long gone now.  Too bad they had lots of neat stuff for our bikes.  Also in the mid to late 70's there was a company that sold 2 into 1 and 3 into 1 chambers for Suzuki streetbikes.  Their name escapes me after all this time but I think they were in Quebec (Canada).  Does anyone out there know of a company making chambers for snowmobiles?  Maybe they would be willing to make custom Suzuki chambers for a price. Regards  Dale  [email protected]

 

Re: Expansion Chamber Obfuscation, 1-Feb-2001 - There are only two companies in the US that I am aware of that offer chambers for the T500 Jemco and Moto Carrera. I believe there are a couple of European manufacturers as well but I can't recall their names at present...  Rich [email protected]

 

Re: Expansion Chamber Obfuscation 2-Feb-2001 - I think the Water Buffalo King mentioned one time that those guys in Quebec are still in business but do most of their work for snowmobiles and watercraft.  I'll see if he has their address URL or phone number and post it when available.  H2RICK

 

Re: Expansion Chamber Obfuscation 3-Feb-2001 - What's Obfus-?,JP

 

Re: Expansion Chamber Obfuscation 4-Feb-2001 - Obfuscate is a kind of smart-alec schoolboy word that means to confuse.  Just a little joke among friends.  It will be nice if H2RICK can get a line on those guys in Quebec.  Regards Dale

 

Re: Expansion Chamber Obfuscation 8-Feb-2001 - Dyno Port (315-253-9631) will make anything you want.  They make chambers for dirtbikes watercraft and snowmobiles.  I had them make pipes for my H2 dropped it off picked it up the next day and they worked great.  Cost was $250 per pipe. Tommy D

 

GT750 Racer's oil pump should I stay or should I go

31-Jan-2001 - I have the low down on the T500 pump removal for racing.  I was wondering what options are available for the GT750.  Is it the same scenario where the seals prevent the bearing from getting any oil?  Are my choices leave pump on or modify ??????  In the housing?  What say you racer's of beasts?  Mike Sharratt was kind enough to tell me how he runs without a pump (I'll assume you don't mind people hearing this Mike).  He drills down from the transfers to give the bearings a wee bit o mist.  BTW its night 2 soaking a set of pistons and studs with liquid wrench.  Couple of swats with a 6 oz rubber mallet everytime I think of it helps build patience (on the cylinders that is not the head).  Yeah Yeah how long will patience take?!!  Eugene [email protected]

 

Keep the pump 31-Jan-2001 - I'm not taking credit for any of the following info; I admit I learned 95% of it on this board 4% I read and 1% from some guy I sat next to at a WERA vintage race.  Suzuki two strokes need their oil pumps.  Old Yamaha two strokes do not.  I was told Yamaha oil pumps were junk anyway.  The oil injection setup contributes to the longevity of Suzuki motors.  "If you want to LOOK like a racer pull off the oil pump and burn up your crank.  If you want to actually race leave it on and go race."  That was the gist of what Muzza told me last year.  IF you discard the oil pump you should drill the holes you mentioned and remove the oil slingers from the crank.  The hot setup as I've been told is to disconnect the throttle control from the pump set the pump at 1/2 open and run 30-1 or 40-1 in the tank.  Also you can get rid of the SRIS oil return system if you want.  Good Luck.  Hopefully you were smarter than I was; I didn't ask this question until after I had thrown my oil pump away.  Todd T

 

Re: Keep the pump 31-Jan-2001 - Just look at how nicely the pump oils the crank and cylinders.  And not with gas diluted oil!  Guzzi John jp

 

Re: Keep the pump 1-Feb-2001 - I agree...keep the pump.  I have always discarded the pumps on my RDs but the Suzuki oiling system is really ingenious.  It actually works!!  Unlike the Yamaha pump the Suzuki sytem directly feeds the bearings (the center bearing is actually lubricated with transmission oil) and cylinders with non-diluted oil which is a major advantage over the Yamaha system... Rich [email protected]

 

Re: Keep the pump 1-Feb-2001 - Eugene: I agree with Todd T.  I still have the pump on my Buffalo roadracer.  I am going to go with the 1/2 open pump and premix approach.  But will keep the SRIS system.  Just don't forget to fill the oil tank like I did! (duh).  (It was my first race weekend and I was kinda disorganized)  But I needed to tear it down anyway to get some porting done.  It was WAY too slow.  Darrell

 

Zooke What kind of pads do you run?

30-Jan-2001 - Zooke What kind of brake pads do you run on your KZ caliper equiped bike?  Where do you get them if they are diff than stock.  I see Sudco sells sintered brake pads for the KZ's now...  What do you think of them?  Alex

 

Re: Zooke What kind of pads do you run? 30-Jan-2001 - Alex, I use Ferodo pads on all my disc bikes.  You can get them from Vintage Brakes out of California.  Zooke

 

GT550 questions for all you experts

29-Jan-2001 - Right now I知 in the process of restoring a 73 GT550.  The cover for the case that the points are located in leaked.  Water got into the points and the cam that they ride on and pitted the cam really bad.  The points themselves were ground down by the pitted cam.  I was wondering if they make an electronic ignition for this bike.  If so is there one brand that is better than another.  I was told points are $30 each and a new cam would be $40.  I might as well spend the money on an electronic ignition for that kind of money.  Secondly I plan on getting expansion chambers for the bike.  Should I use the stock airbox with expansion chambers or would filters like K&Ns allow the engine to breath better?  Or does this even matter on a 2stroke bike?  Last but not least Is there any truth to the rumor that the center cylinder on triples seize because it gets to hot?  If so can anything be done about it?  Much thanks to any expert who can help with my questions.  Mike [email protected]

 

Re: GT550 questions for all you experts 30-Jan-2001 - Hi Mike.  You have a choice of Boyer Newtronic and possibly Lucas Ritta  The Boyer is the cheapest but is designed for the Kawasaki KH250 and needs a fair amount of modification to fit.  It also locks the timing of all three cylinders together not good!  The Lucas system if you can get one is better but they are becoming hard to find.  By far the best in my opinion is the Newtronics SU6.  It is optically triggered allows independant timing of each cylinder and comes as a complete package ie: remove old replace with new.  For the 550 the triggers have to be taken off the back plate and fitted to the other side a 15 minute job.  Clive [email protected]

 

Re: GT550 questions for all you experts 30-Jan-2001 - The UK mag Classic Bike did a feature on fitting electronic ignition to a '73 550 if you like I can scan / mail a copy to you.  Let me know on the list.  The Newtronics kit is about 100 UKP and fits straight on with no wire cutting.  If you fit chambers it's best to use something like Uni sock filters and to go up on the jetting.  However I'd get the ignition fitted and see how you like the bike a well-sorted 550 is pretty quick!  Most triples run a slightly bigger main jet in the middle carb to help it run cooler but with modern oils well-set timing and carbs it's no problem.  Craig

 

Re:Newtronics for GT550 30-Jan-2001 - I run a Newtronics on my 1977 GT550.  It works like a charm.  The ignition comes set up for the 380/750 engine which turn the same way.  The 550 engine turns the other way so you have to take the pickups off and flip the base plate over and reinstall the pickups.  Somehow I messed this up. but other than that its worked great for me.  Gary [email protected]

 

Re: GT550 questions for all you experts 30-Jan-2001 - Thanks for your help you guys. I think I got all the info I need.  Craig if it's not too much trouble it would be great if you could send me a copy of that article.  Are you thinking about scanning and emailing it?  If so my email address is [email protected]  Mike

 

Filters

30-Jan-2001 - Just had a long talk with Zooke last night regarding things like airbox replacement.  We tend to agree that the aftermarket industry pulled one on us 20+ years ago by pushing the supposed performance properties of individual filters.  They will in some cases produce more peak power but usually at the price of overall rideability.  If you notice the racers tend to have airboxes now albeit ram inducted.  The little filters are just an easy out and look trick to those who don't know.  If you are building a full blown race bike then look forward to many days or weeks of trying to jet the thing to get the most out of it.  Otherwise put on the chambers and tune the thing to a (stock) T and enjoy.  Who cares if it isn't the fastest GT550 ever made all the squids are on 600 or bigger things anyway.  Enjoy Guzzi John John Pierson

 

RE: Filters...Amen to that GJ. Tuesday 30-Jan-2001 - H2RICK

 

 

WAY off topic but I'll give it a try

29-Jan-2001 - This is way off topic as it has nothing to do with Suzuki but because of this boards extensive amount of knowledge I thought I'd try here first.  I have the opportunity to get my hands on a '91 Honda Pacific Coast extremely cheap and in excellent condition (my father's - he just got a new Gold Wing).  My brother (also a Gold WIng owner) and my father have been pressuring me for some time to do some long distance riding with them.  I as of yet have yet to legally ride a motorcycle so I do not have very much experience with them on the road.  My question is should I consider getting the PC?  I've got some lower back problems and also concerned about riding a 30+ old bike 500 miles from the nearest sign of civilization.  How bad are the T500s on long distance trips?  My dad insists I won't be able to keep up with him and my brother on their Wings.  Any input on this matter would be greatfully appreciated. (BTW either way I go I WILL get my Cobra running by this summer), Greg Groth [email protected]

 

Re: WAY off topic but I'll give it a try 30-Jan-2001 - There's two sections to the answer here: 1) A well-sorted T500 will keep running and running without problems. Take some sensible spares with you (plugs points condensors) and you'll be fine. Just keep feeding it fuel and especially oil you'll have no trouble keeping up with those overweight Wings.  On a long run it'll have about the same economy too.  The comfort problem is harder to address.  What sort of speeds will you all be cruising at?  You won't have a fairing on the T so windblast & cold may get to you if you're going fast.  Maybe fit a screen?  Craig

 

Re: WAY off topic but I'll give it a try 30-Jan-2001 - Thanks for the reply.  From what I understand they usually cruise around 65-75 mph.  They keep telling me I need a bike with a fairing.  I知 not so much worried about the cold as they do most of their riding in July and August high 80's low 90's around here - the wind is another story though and was wondering if anyone makes a fairing or screen that can be adapted to the T500.  I have heard that the T500 can vibrate a tad at higher speeds and was wondering how bad it really is.  I probably should also mention that I知 6'1" and around 250 lbs and kind of past my physical prime.  Thanks again for the reply. GregG [email protected]

 

Re: WAY off topic but I'll give it a try 30-Jan-2001 - The T500 is a great tourer and the vibes are nothing to worry about.  A good Suzi will cruise at 70mph all day... but they are getting long in the tooth and won't be as sweet and smooth and trouble free as a A$30,000 Gold Wing.  Mind you personally I find the Gold Wings gross machines that are more akin to a big car than a bike.  Don't put a touring fairing on a 500 it will take too much out of the motor.  Sporty fairings are OK but brick wall touring fairings are another. Muzza

 

Re: WAY off topic but I'll give it a try 30-Jan-2001 - At those sort of speeds the T will sit there happily at around 4500rpm (below where the vibes start) and will pull happily all day.  You should get around 45 - 50 mpg.  You may not need a fairing either -- maybe a set of shorter / lower bars would do. Craig

 

"Don't Flog an Old Horse"

30-Jan-2001 - The purists among us may pillory me but take the PC if it's available and enjoy the trip.  If you had a T500 fresh out of the box then go for it.  There's no sense using up whatever life is left in a neat old bike zooming cross country with a couple of wings.  The PC would be a lot less tiring and worriesome in the long run.  If the others were on similar machinery then things would be different but big wings like to cruise 70-80+mph.  Either way enjoy the trip. Guzzi John John Pierson

 

Re: "Don't Flog an Old Horse" 30-Jan-2001 - that's sort of what I was saying too! Muzza

 

Re: Flogging An Old Horse to Daytona!!! 30-Jan-2001 - Well folks I am going to flog and "Old Horse" (68 Cobra) for approximately 700 mi from Pulaski to Daytona and then Frank Melling is going to race it in Formula 500 and Formula Vintage.  Then...  I am going to ride it back to Pulaski.  It will have Rearsets Expansion Chambers Clubman Bars and an Abbreviated seat from stock no windscreen.  Any bike can break down.  I say ride what you want and have a ball.  Do a complete checkup on the T500.  It will do the ride.  But the PC is a good choice too if you can't talk yourself into riding the T500.  Zooke

 

Another take on this

30-Jan-2001 - Another way to look at this although slightly pessimistic sounding at first is if the T500 were the bike you took and the worst happens you suffer slight power loss intermittent failures etc.  You will no doubt learn to hate this charming bike even though it is being compared to bikes two decades of improvements ahead of it (whoa!  I never thought I would be speaking nicely about Wings).  And these are after all family relationships aside bikin buddies.  You will never hear the end of it.  However if you take the PC and it goes well you get wonderful memories and you can beg your two stroke mount for forgiveness when you get home.  Lavish it with attention take it on country rides and basically rekindle the romance.  If the PC lets you down you have the 祢 shoulda trusted the ol steed trump card and you still get to have that wonderful relationship with your Titan.  Its a no loose situation.  And yes I have been spending a lot of time in the garage... maybe too much... but its love I tell ya love!  Eugene

 

Re: Another take on this 31-Jan-2001 - I'd rather kiss a pig than ride a PC.  Honda has made a lot of good bikes in their time but the PC ain't one of them.  Better you should buy a CX.  ;-)  H2RICK

 

Re: Another take on this 31-Jan-2001 - If I was man enough I'd admit to having had 2 CX500s in my time.  Great bikes around town... but a bit pushed on the open road. I love them CXs have one now but ma little Suzi would cry too much!  PCs are pretty sad but hey if it has to ride with Gold Wings it will look pretty good and practical beside them.  I知 not afraid to admit that I find Wings ridiculous in the bike/car stakes.  Worst of both worlds.  Like Hogs in some ways!  Muzza

 

Strangely enough...

31-Jan-2001 - and for reasons unknown Brits and Aussies generally LOVE those CX's regardless of piston displacement fairings etc.  In most parts of Canada you can't give away a CX even with free whiskey.  Go figure.  H2RICK

 

Re: Strangely enough..., 31-Jan-2001 - I learned to ride on a CX500.  In retro-spec not a great bike at all.  But that crank running port to stern did explain why my buddy (it was his bike) was always slowly banking to the left of the lane then swooping to the right (rolling with the engine).  Hell I just figured it was the wiskey he had gotten with the bike.  Eugene  Canada

 

Re: Strangely enough... 31-Jan-2001 - In WERA Vintage a couple-three years ago at Road Atlanta a guy had a hotted up CX500 in frame that looked like a Brittan and was painted the same.  Boy was it loud and fast.  Zooke

 

Re: Strangely enough... 31-Jan-2001 - Hey Zooke was that CX turned sideways and chain driven?  I remember seeing a pix of a flattracker made outta one backin the early 80s.  I think in the same writeup they also showed a Virago engined one.  That's why I love my XV920R.  GJ JP

 

Re: WAY off topic but I'll give it a try - Thanks 3-Feb-2001 - I appreciate all of the opinions forwaded to me on this matter.  After thinking long and hard I've decided to take a pass on the PC.  For those interested there were three things that made me take a pass on it.  1st the opinions that you have given that the T-500 isn't that bad on the road.  2nd I just can't picture myself riding something with that much plastic.  3rd I forgot that buying the PC would mean forgoing the rebuild of my 10-spd.  I知 an avid bicycle rider (I currently own 34) and have to get a new frame as my last was decimated by a run-in with a toyota.  So it looks like my '68 will be going on the road this summer.  Thanks again for all the help.  One more note to say that the people on this board have to have the highest class rating of any on the internet.  Best regards   Greg Groth  [email protected]

 

This is a SERIOUS question.  All answers welcome

29-Jan-2001 - Looking at Muzza's latest T500 picture gave me another idea.  Would the exhaust header from the T500 bolt up to my GT550 exhuast port?  Are the bolts spaced the same?  Is the flange the same diameter? I was thinking I could weld that header from some old rusty junk pipes to my Air Cone chambers to help tuck them in better.  The T500 headers seem to tuck in neater than the GT550 pipes.  The header portion is the part I知 having trouble with.  ToddT

 

Re: This is a SERIOUS question.  All answers welcome. 29-Jan-2001 - I'd be willing to bet that the 550 pipes are smaller in diameter i.d. wise at least but I could be wrong (there's a first time for everything).  Guzzi John  John Pierson

 

Re: This is a SERIOUS question.  All answers welcome 29-Jan-2001 - Todd: Won't work.  Titan pipes are bigger diameter and thus the flange and flange studs/holes are further apart.  If you're looking at a custom setup had to your local muffler shop.  They have various diameters of pipe/tubing and a very neat hydraulic bender that can create all kinds of wonderful headers.  H2RICK

 

Thanks H2 I didn't think an exhaust shop would bother with a project like that 29-Jan-2001 - I guess they would need to have the bike and my cones together to make it all fit.  Already sounds expensive...  If I can't do this myself or get a friend to do it the whole system will cost too much when you add the cost of having the cones rolled and the silencers I already paid for.  BTY... are you sure the T500 pipes are bigger in dia. at the exhaust port?  The only book I have with T500 info says the outside dia. of the pipe at the flange is 45mm or 1.77 in.  A piece of 1.75 in. inside dia. tubing will seal like a flange fit around my GT550 header pipe.  Based on that I'd say they are very close to the same size.  Maybe I could weld the threaded part of my pipes up to the T500 pipes and use my Flanges.  That would shorten my headers which were going to be a little too long anyway.  Then I could take full advantage of those actual race ported cylinders I traded Zooke for (but havn't seen yet).  I want to have this motor finished and running soon I can't stand the anticipation.  I want to see those new cylinders before I try the ones I've altered to compare and see what a good job actually looks like.  Then I'll have a better idea of whether I want to risk trying my design.,Todd T

 

Re: Thanks H2 I didn't think an exhaust shop would bother with a project like that 29-Jan-2001 - FWIW I know this a little bit of a stretch but I just had a "custom" exhaust put in my pick-up.  I swapped engines and didn't want to deal with any of the exhaust because nothing was stock and it needed a lot of tricky bends so I brought it in to an exhaust shop.  New exhaust from the manifolds back was $400.  Most of this was the catalytic converter and the muffler.  My point is you might give it a try it might be cheaper than you think.  Greg Groth [email protected]

 

Re: Thanks H2 I didn't think an exhaust shop would bother with a project like that 30-Jan-2001 - The T500 header is way too big for the GT550 in my opinion and not only that but it lacks the taper that you require for an optimum expansion chamber setup to work well.  Make up tapered headers and be done with it don't compromise on one of the most critical areas of racing two stroke design.  That's my 2 pennies worth anyway.  Muzza

 

Muzza are you there?

29-Jan-2001 - Check out and respond to the new addtion to the DUAL DISK thread below.  Todd T

 

Re: Muzza are you there? 30-Jan-2001 - Todd...you crazy!  You been in JP's beer fridge again!  You asking for trouble trying to out lampoon me buddy...  this is war! I expect to see you and the GT550 up at the track (Wanneroo Raceway Western Australia that is) this Friday ready to try out against my 500 suzi.  May the best man win or woman or transexual depending on your personal preference!  PS as to brakes I've done them all twin drilled single drum and the best times were on a crappy 2 leading shoe drum brake but then I was 20 years younger then! I stick to single disk now because it all you need and lighter.  But then I am talking about the 500 not a 550.  Muzza

 

You think that was bad Check out the Wirges pipe discussion back a few posts 30-Jan-2001 - Another shot fired across your bow... bowels?  That's real manly challenging me to race a bike with no motor in Australia I can't even swim!!!  Todd "William Wirges" Taylor

 

Still There? 30-Jan-2001 - Gads he's a tough bugger.  The last we saw of im after the eelpout oil deluge that sent him slippin' into the sea was a 'Great White' and a big old 'Saltwater Croc' playin' tug o war with him like two terriers with a bone.  Back to the Viking drawing board.  Maybe we'll slip a giant squid into his loo.  Gotta be a way. Guzzi John JP

 

Re: Still There? 31-Jan-2001 - No threat from Vikings here mate they can't take the heat!  Make good shark bait though... great burley for the White Pointer.  Why do you think Aussies take all the gold in the Olympic swimming pool... they train in the ocean and only the best get through any slo pokes become clam chowder!  Muzza

 

Forgive me brothers for I have sinned...

28-Jan-2001 - While searching for a suitable race bike for my coming novice year I fell victim to the allure of another.  She tempted me with the closeness of her gearbox the voluptuous curves of her full race fairing and the siren sounds of her scantilly clad cylinders bathed in water jackets.  We passed in the night and I only new her by her initials TZ.  But alas I was brought to my senses and broke the demon spell returning once more to my darling Suzi.  She is honest and faithful a vixen when she wants to be and more than enough for my fumbling novice ways.  How could I have turned from her even if only in thought?  Yes I am mortal. Forgive me.  As penance I have said 3 hail Suzuki's and in a fit of self-flagellation bought Eugene's T500 racer this evening so that my sorrow may be hidden in the blue smoke of all those ahead of me.  I feel shame.  Shun me if you must.,  Stephen [email protected]

 

Re: Say 5 Our Fathers 5 Hail Marys and 1 Act of Contrition and you are forgiven my son. 29-Jan-2001 -

 

Re: Kill the sinner - sorry - I meant Blessed is the sinner 29-Jan-2001 - Sorry about that I just saw South Park and must've gone into character.  I meant "Blessed is the Sinner" for Yeah I walk in the Valley of Death and verily the meek shall suffer so that the good will die young.  Welcome back to thy Father's house my prodigal son... and yeah. don't those water-cooled Yammies go well but the Suzuki is the most honest.  Muzza

 

"Novice Bikes for Novices!" 9-Jan-2001 - The Holy T-Zed does not cotton well to neophytes.  Gain as much experience as you can before tweaking the nose of fate aboard one of those beasties!  With the 500 you won't need to hire a tuner either.  Good luck Guzzi John

 

Another Brake Question

28-Jan-2001 - Hello again.  As long as I知 on the subject of brakes...  I drilled my 1st set of rotors with 36 holes of about 8mm dia. set in a radial pattern.  Although this looks great I managed only a small weight savings.  I have another set and Im considering more holes.  Using AutoCad I drew up a scale pic of my rotor and I can easily get 108 8mm holes with 1mm chamfers spread radialy at 3 hole every 10 degrees (one low one 5 deg. over at center line and one high along original line). these rotors are 296mm at the outside dia. and it looks like there ould still be plenty of meat left to keep things together... so to speak.  Anyony have any exp. with drilling their own rotors?  Good / Bad or other wise?  Thanks  Alex Borcyk [email protected]

 

Re: Another Brake Question 28-Jan-2001 - Alex, You might try thinning them first.  My set on my GP bike are off a Z1R and are thinned and drilled and have done extremely well over three seasons of racing.,Zooke

 

Cooling

29-Jan-2001 - Drilling disks can be done for 3 reasons (1) releasing gas build at surface (2) lightening the disk (3) improving cooling.  I think modern practices have shown that slotting (not all the way through) a disk is more effective than drilling for gas release.  Eric's (sorry Zooke's - I can't get used to that) suggestion of thinning is a more effective way to reduce weight but be careful you don't go so thin that warping is a problem.  As for reason number 3 the key is to make sure that any holes drilled are not so big that the area of the material removed is greater than the area of the inner surface of the remaining hole.  Otherwise you can have too much material removed from the disk and the remaining material has to absorb and release too much heat from the use of the brakes from a smaller total surface area.  In other words an 8mm hole might be appropriate for a standard disk but a thinned disk will require smaller diameter holes.  (You will have to compare the resultant figures from applying the formula for the area of a circle vs. the area of the cylinder surface that remains.)  The beauty of thinning is that the surface area does not change at all and slotting actually increases surface area.  But ahhh we all like that swiss cheese look! Stephen [email protected]

 

Re: Cooling 29-Jan-2001 - Stephen, Very cool problem solving and info.  Thanks that was exactly what I was looking for.  So I did the math and by thinning my 7mm rotors to 5 mm and using 90 8mm holes (the area stuff works out easily with the cyl. area roughly 2.5 times the area of the hole)  I should ge a total material reduction of 40.5 %.  Using that # on my 6.368lbs rotor (2.8945kg)  I should achieve a total weight savings of approx 2.58lbs per rotor...  Looks Great on paper.  Now where is that phone book... machine shops $$$.  Seriously I plan to drill them myself but let the pros do the thinning.  Any thoughts before I spend my hard earned Cash?  Thanks again Stephen.  Alex Borcyk

 

Thinning and drilling 29-Jan-2001 - Have them thinned (turned on a lathe with an equal amount from each side) first before drilling them.  This obviously avoids having to champfer the holes a second time.  If you take them to a brake shop they may be able to do it (often done to car rotors when they become warped) and after they have been turned make sure they use the special sander on it to put the nice swirl patterns on the surface.  This ensures a flat groove-free surface and prevents glazing of the surface on first use.  I would check with Eric to see what he feels is a safe amount to thin the disks before doing it.  Stephen [email protected]

 

Need 75' T500 Titan Oil pump parts

28-Jan-2001 - Help!  I need a banjo connection on the 0il pump for a 75 T500 Titan. I could use a few other parts as well.  But this one is critical.  Patrick [email protected]

 

Re: Need 75' T500 Titan Oil pump parts 28-Jan-2001 - Is it a banjo bolt or the banjo its self you need?  If its the bolt Pt No 09360-06003 will get you the real thing.  If you need a banjo for the inlet rob one off an old oil line.  If its for the outlet then you need a replacement line.  Clive

 

Re: Need 75' T500 Titan Oil pump parts 29-Jan-2001 - Clive, It is the banjo itself that I need.  The banjo from the oil pump to the 2 cycle tank.  Is this the inlet or outlet line?  If it is the outlet line will a new line come with a banjo? Patrick [email protected]

 

Re: Need 75' T500 Titan Oil pump parts 29-Jan-2001 - Hi Patrick.  The line in question is the in-line.  Banjo unions are available as Pt No 09363-06006  You will also need sealing washers (now Aluminum)Pt No 09168-06002 2 per banjo union. If your bike still has the nylon washers fitted I would suggest you change them all.  A problem you may come up against is that the T500 inlet line was a one piece unit with the banjo's fixed to it.  So you may have to make up a new line from suitable tube.  In this case the inlet banjo on the oil pump will have to be shortened otherwise it will foul on the oil pump control cable. If you make a new line up use the hard insert where the line exits from the pump cover.  If you cannot get the parts e-mail me and I will try and get them for you.  Cheers Clive [email protected]

 

Re: Need 75' T500 Titan Oil pump parts 29-Jan-2001 - let me look through my parts and see what I can come up with I may be able to help.  Justin [email protected]

 

Dual Disks

28-Jan-2001 - Hi everyone, I have been reading this message board for quite a while now but this is my firts post So  Hello.  I am SLOWLY building a T500 GP racer (1973 I think half the frame #'s missing).  I have adapted a KZ750 front end with shorter upper tubes to fit (mostly cause I have a lot of KZ 750-900 front end parts).  I decided to run dual disks up front and drilled a set myself (look pretty trick too).  Here is my question... I have noticed many of you comenting on dual disks being overkill as far as stopping goes why?  Although they do look rather BIG on that 18 inch wheel Ive always thought that was a good thing.  One other note I plan to use stock KZ calipers as well... any thoughts on this?  Thanks Alex Borcyk [email protected]

 

Re: Dual Disks 28-Jan-2001 - Alex - I agree with you I would think you'd want all the braking power you could get on the track.  I知 running GT750 dual disks on my GT550.  This will be my first year so I can't speak from experience with THIS bike BUT I do know that when I went to HH pads on my CBR900 RR I could slow down and stop faster and my lap times improved.  Maybe it's just a matter of taste amoung riders/racers.  Todd T

 

Re: Dual Disks & Mae West 28-Jan-2001 - Alex - To paraphrase what Mae once said: You can never have TOO much horsepower TOO much braking or TOO little weight.  Of course we all remember the original quote about never being too rich too thin or having too many shoes.  I think Imelda Marcos was a big Mae West fan at least for 2 out of 3.  LOL.  Seriously go for the double disk setup.  This will eliminate and "torque-steer" effect you get from having one disk.  This is a very complex subject and I've read many discussions about this effect.  I知 not a math/phsics expert but what I've read certainly makes sense and you CAN feel this effect on a single disk bike IF you work the brake hard especially in corners depending on which way you are turning and which side the single disk is mounted on.  Good luck with your project.  H2RICK

 

Re: Dual Disks 28-Jan-2001 - The biggest drawback to dual disks is the increased unsprung weight.  I put both stock disks on the front of my RD400 racer years ago using a TX500 fork and TX650 aluminum rims.  Using the stock single disk master cylinder gives increased lever input (power brakes) albeit with increased lever travel. Have fun Guzzi John, John Pierson

 

Re: Dual Disks and upgrade your master cylinder... 28-Jan-2001 - I've also been advised lately by more than one source not to run the small master cylinder used on the stock GT750 and 550 set ups.  You need the additional fluid volume to keep the brakes from getting mushy when used hard on the track.  The advice I got again by more than one source is to use the larger square master cylinder from a newer Katanna (Canned-Tuna) or other Suzuki sporty bike.  Use braided steel brake lines (Russell Cycle Flex) and modern compound brake pads (EBC kevlar pads-part#FA 55).  Zooke recommended Ferado vintage pads also.  Alex where will you be racing?  Todd T

 

Re: Dual Disks 28-Jan-2001 - Thanks for the encouragement... so far only the extra weight seems to be a problem.  I have a master cyl. off a 93 zypher 750 and another from a GS1100e both in good condition. the newer master cyl are leagle in vintage racing?  AHRMA and WERA.  Todd I plan to race mostly in the north east I live in Bighamton NY and there are no local tracks.  I went to watch Eric run at Mid-Ohio and summit point last year and liked the looks of both tracks alot.  Any input on the stock KZ calipers?  Alex

 

Re: Dual Disks 28-Jan-2001 - Alex - I run the later square type master cylinders and they have said nothing about them.  The KZ750 calipers should work great as I have KZ650 calipers on my GP bike.  It will lock up the front end if you try hard enough.  I works so nice that you can easily trail brake through the corners.  I like that!  Zooke

 

Re: Dual Disks 28-Jan-2001 - Zooke your selling your GP bike... Why?  If you dont mind telling us.  Alex

 

Re: Cause I am building another.  It's a disease I can't control. 28-Jan-2001 - Zooke

 

Do KZ calipers fit GT750 550 forks and rotors?

28-Jan-2001 - Are you using the whole front end?  Or just the brakes with the GT forks?...  Always trying to learn a new angle!:) Todd T

 

Re: Do KZ calipers fit GT750 550 forks and rotors?, 28-Jan-2001 - Todd - I am using the entire front end.  I used the T500 stem welded onto the KZ upper and lower parts...  I should have used a GT500 stem (cheaper headset bearings).  The KZ parts give me more offset (=less trail faster steering) and 36mm fork tubes (less flex Stronger I hope).  Alex

 

Sounds good to me just don't let the Suzuki purists find out where you live! 28-Jan-2001 - I always liked the Zepher kind of like a naked sport bike before they got popular.  I would think anything off the Zepher would be an upgrade for the T500.  Good luck maybe I'll see you at the races this year.  Todd T

 

Re: brakes what aer thay??? 29-Jan-2001 - Not a good typing night tonight mmmm.  Anyway brakes what are they??  I always find brakes a damned nuisance they slow you down and ruin your lap times.  To get that single disk steering thing H2Rick referred to you would have to actually apply the thing so hard that you would know you are wasting good laptime there.  I always got my best laptimes on the old drum brake Titan especially after it began to fade.  The single disk is plenty good enough on a 500 and doesn't weigh a ton.  2 disks look good and certainly pull you up but you shouldn't need such powerful brakes pulling into the pits.  Muzza

 

My new "Brake strategy"

29-Jan-2001 - Based on Muzza's input I have decided to compromize on my front brake setup on my "GT550 Racer".  I will continue to use the drilled dual disks for the stopping power but I've decided to only run one caliper (since I don't have to worry about torque steer :)).  I will also get rid of those heavy braided steel brake lines.  Brake lines add weight to the bike who needs that?  I'll keep the Master cylinder but remove the lever for added weight savings.  These changes along with removing every other spoke and the 180 5mm holes I've drilled in my new Avon sprint tires should make my "GT RACE BIKE" much lighter and flickable.  Thanks for the help Muzza!  BTW... I'm mostly just making fun of myself with this so please no one take it any other way. OK?  Todd I'll copy anything anyone else does T.

 

Your new brake setup sounds as efficient as the stock T500 Drum I have been using. Brilliant setup idea! 29-Jan-2001 - I'm going to working on my tires tonight to lighten up the front end too.  Todd

 

Re: brakes what are they??? 29-Jan-2001 - There's some wisdom in them thar words Muzza.  I find I can ride my street T500 with a lot of confidence with it's stock drum.  I throw it into turns with maximum trail braking since I never have to worry about locking it up!  The panic in my helmet is interpreted by casual observors as "carrying good corner speed"!!!  When I get on a bike with disks I scare the S#@! out of myself every time I use them!!!!!  Stephen [email protected]

 

Re: brakes what are they??? 30-Jan-2001 - The only suggestion I have to add to Todd's plan of attack is... whay stop at lightening the bike... a few pounds of grey matter left in the pits before a race always helps as does putting your finger down your throat and clearing out last nights half digested dinner and the morning's breakfast.  Why stop there?  A good dump before the race should get rid of another couple of pounds and has anyone thought about how heavy toenails can be... add it up... ten toenials and another ten fingernails... all can go...and that hair... shave it off! Discard one glove...you won't be using it anyway having removed the brake lever and  Why use a helmet after all you have left all the brain cells in the pit anyway... and... that's probably enough from me for now!!!  :o)  Muzza

 

Re: Florida Road Racing Leathers... 30-Jan-2001 - Tank top shorts flip-flops fingerless gloves.  This should help lighten the load as well.  Zooke

 

 

 

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